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    War of Ascendance

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    Flames of Terror

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    War of Ascendance

    Post by Flames of Terror on Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:38 pm

    Alright so to begin I'll layout the foundation of the MOBA, and then you can all ask questions for specifics that you want to know. Since this is a serious game concept we ask that you also give alternative ideas (but please make them clear).

    Foundations:

    1. Each Hero will have equipment slots similar to many RPGs.
    2. Each Hero have a primary and secondary stat (from 6) which will determine the Hero's role.
    3. Items will be focused around providing primary and secondary stats. (Not health, mana, or regen)
    4. Items above the 1st Tier will have unique passives that will make them different from items of a similar type.
    5. Items will be broken up like most RPGs (axes, swords, leather armor, etc) and Heroes will have certain item preferences (like most RPG's and their classes).
    6. The sum of a Heroes base stats will never be below/above 35.
    7. Each Hero will have 3 Relic (Special) items they can acquire. The specific means for acquiring them are not complete.
    8. The game types will include; 5v5, 5v5v5, 3v3, 1v1, 2v2, Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, and Hero Defense. There will be separate maps for each type.

    -----------------------------------

    Background Story:

    The Magni were a proud race of magic-users that traveled the galaxy using magical gateways between worlds. Being masters of Dimensional magic they felt that the many races they had met and helped could benefit from living together on a single world. However, since no one world was large enough they came up with a plan to create a separate dimensional plane in which they all could live. The twelve leaders of the Magni began the ceremony within the center of their greatest city of learning and prime focus for magic. During the casting they felt the forces of what they hoped to control, and knew that it was beyond flesh and blood. The magic they had summoned began to rip apart the worlds using the gateways between them. Unable to control the magic as they were, they steeled their minds and pulled the magic into themselves.

    Through a bit of luck and their own vast skill, they managed to ascend to beings of pure magic. Now able to harness the chaotic magic they pulled all the affected worlds into their own bodies, and manifested the dimension around themselves. But the effects of the magic still had done a great deal of damage before they could control it, and even with the vast skill and concentration the magic was still chaotic. They couldn't establish the new plane as a whole, and it kept breaking down and floating in the amber sky of the dimension. Many peoples of each race died during this time, but the remaining Magni managed to stabilize the origin of the magic, the city of Alaron.

    With this bastion of stability they began to work to stabilizing their new home, and trying to rebuild. However, only fifty years after this the Archons communicated with the leaders of the Magni, and told them that they were dying. The magic was corrosive and their wills were being eaten away. They informed the leaders that new, powerful mages must take their place or all would end. The leaders implored the Archons that they were, and still were, the greatest of mages and none could reach their level, and so the Archons gave them the Orichalchion. This crystal was hung high in the sky above the Magni's capital and granted them all the ability to shape their flesh. Through the direction of the Archon they found that the dead souls, held in artifacts from their time, of heroes, beasts and warriors would grant them an incredible increase the their magic.

    Thus the Avalon Tournament was conceived. However, the leaders of the Magni began to fight among one another. With this new promise of power they might be able to find a way to complete their original spell, or perhaps undo everything. Eventually the leaders broke up and created the Twelve Houses. Each one devoted to a single Archon and a goal.

    So declare your alligence, gather souls, and fight your battles towards Ascension!


    =================================

    Alright questions, comments, suggestions?
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    Bliztron

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Bliztron on Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:47 am

    This sounds cool, and I would be interested in helping out with design and concepting. I'm not saying this in a negative manner, but I'm not sure how this applies to the LoL forum. By all means, keep it here, but I'm just asking why post it here instead of a more commonly seen area? Just my curiosity, I suppose.


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    Flames of Terror

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Flames of Terror on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:31 am

    It's because it was requested by Zarkof.
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    Zarkof

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Zarkof on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:59 pm

    I'd be willing to help then since you're serious about this.

    The hardest part of actually getting past conceptualizing is making things work. Think of it like building a house. First, you need to draw up the plans. Second, you need to lay the foundation. Third, you need to build the structure, and while you're doing so, you need to build in the utilities with it. Lastly, you need to furnish it.

    To compare to a video game of this type, you need to first conceptualize the game and its objectives. Next you need to provide the constraining elements that limit how the player accomplishes the objectives (foundation). This includes basic game mechanics such as how stats affect play. Third, you build the environment. This includes maps and nuances, like minions, neutral creeps, what kind of buffs and items there are on each map, and anything else special about the maps. This could also be the part where you actually make and program the actual video game. Lastly, you furnish it. You now adjust the numbers on champions, items, and any other in-game mobs to make them fit into the world you have just created. First the plan, then the rules, then the environment, then the numbers.

    From what I can see, this is on the borderline of planning and foundation. I'm not exactly sure how far along you guys are, so I'm not sure where you need the assistance. Right now it seems like you have a general idea on the limits of base stats and what kind of maps you want. The item structure seems to be in its infant stage. Champion structure (from what I've seen on the forum you linked) seems to be the same as League: Base Stats, Passive, 4 spells, and limited item slots. I am wondering what kinds of effects the Relics will have, though, and what kinds of things need to be done to acquire items. "Is there going to be a gold system with a shop? Are you going to need to do special things to get higher tier items, such as unlocking based on what items you have or combining items you've bought? If there is gold, how do you get it?" These kinds of things.

    As for the story, I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around it, but I'm no expert on stories so I can't really give you an opinion on it right now.

    While I don't have any formal training in terms of design, I do have some experience in engineering from being on a FIRST robotics team mentored by an engineering professor at MIT. It's pretty much the same thing, though. It's just engineering a video game instead of a robot. Same principle and it works for anything in life: You have a problem that you need to solve (or a goal you need to reach), so how do you go about doing that?
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    Flames of Terror

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Flames of Terror on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:27 pm

    The items mostly just need names and stats. The Relics will be ranked by order of how difficult they are to acquire, and the power that they represent. For the most part they are much like Rengar's item except that they will actually be up-gradable via gold. As for how to get them, we are thinking of in-game quests that will be given after certain conditions. There will be a purchase system similar to League; Points you earn through play, and points you buy for money.

    =============

    Relics:

    These are items from the Hero's past that contain a fragment of their lost powers. Essentially they will do something similar to Vicktor's base item; enhance one of his abilities or passive. The three ranks of them will be Bronze, Silver, and Gold. Each one will be harder to acquire then the last, but whether you will need to get each one in order is under question. Each one will start at a higher tier (Bronze the lowest, Gold the highest) and will increase it's tier twice.
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    Zarkof

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Zarkof on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:28 am

    Bear with me. I'm still not fully understanding of the actual plans for the mechanics of one individual match.

    What about purchasing in-game items? Is it going to be like getting gold on minion kill as in League and DotA2? How long were you planning on these games taking? If you were going to have 5 or 6 tiers of items and multiple item slots, that seems like it'd be a lot to deal with in a sub-hour length match. If people were going to be buying this amount of items inside of a 20 minute match, they'd have to be making full purchases every minute.

    When you mentioned "in-game quests" you were talking about inside the MOBA, not the MMO, right? Having multiple "quests" for every champion seems like a lot to get done in a single sub-hour match if each quest is going to be unique per champ. DotA2 has an item called Aghanim's Scepter which only upgrades certain heroes' ultimates and also provides some base stats and it costs gold. Working in three different unique bonuses to each champion also seems like a lot of balance work. DotA2 heroes don't have "passives" like League champions do so Aghanim's is justifiable (but DotA2 still isn't balanced).

    Were you planning on having various things carry over with the player from one match to the next?
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    Flames of Terror

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Flames of Terror on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:39 am

    Alright these are fun questions:

    Games could take anywhere from 15 minutes (if your team is just stomping) to 1 hour+. Gold would be acquired by kills on minions and champions. Champion gold drops will be equal to their killing sprees plus the time they have been alive. Surviving combat (prolonged) with low life MAY increase this amount. You wouldn't get gold per second unless you bought an item that gives it, or a Mage Passive.

    (Note: Mages [Summoners] do not gain "masteries" or have "runes" instead they research Passives and Spells. This is done by using the Skill Experience acquired after each game.)

    Champions will only have TWO unique stats (dexterity, strength, intelligence, wisdom, endurance, agility) which will define their role and class (Fighter, Nuker, Support, Tank, etc). They will only see items that have their two stats, or items that have no prime stats or such, in the item shop.

    In-game Quests will be multiple games in completion. (As they will be rewarding you with a Relic that will carry over into every game you play with said champion)

    There WILL be in-game objectives (Similar to Dominion games in LoL) that will net additional gold or buffed minions, damage bonus, health regen bonus, or whatever the objective grants. This will be the job of your jungler, or Quest-Taker. Some of these objectives will grant the bonus to multiple people if they are nearby, deal damage, assist in some way to completing them. Some of these objectives will grant team gold. There will be no Buff, Dragon, or Baron mobs in the jungle for; 5v5, 5v5v5, and 3v3.

    2v2 and 1v1 will not have any objectives but will instead have mob camps (non-buff).

    KotH's only objective is to stay on the hill. Gold is gained by remaining on the hill, killing opponents, obtaining kill sprees, or collecting Gold Orbs.

    CtF has similar objective goals as 5v5, 5v5v5, and 3v3s. Save these deal with flag capture.

    Hero Defense has no objectives. Gold is gained by killing creeps in the wave, clearing waves, Bosses, and Secret Bosses.

    ------------------

    Remember that heroes have a traditional equipment layout, so it's easier to organize the items and create a simple advancement.

    Each game type will have it's own average game time, but that's only an average not the min or max.

    Killing your own minions to deny gold to your enemies MAY be included. Otherwise gold is gained through killing enemy minions, champions, completing objectives, and destroying buildings (towers and such). A standard 5v5 would be similar to LoL, DotA, and HoN. Kill the towers to unlock the next towers to kill creep inhibitors (barracks in HoN and DotA), and finally destroy the turrets around the Core to win the game.

    (Note: 5v5v5, 3v3, 2v2, and 1v1 are the same. KotH is to hold the hill for a (cumulative time). CtF is to capture a certain number of times. Hero Defense is to beat the waves, bosses, and kill the Final Boss. 1v1 and 2v2 can be limited to being kills only (aka, kill your enemy(ies) X times to win).
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    Zarkof

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Zarkof on Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:44 am

    So, will items only have one stat on them? Or can they have multiple stats on them? Imagine you have a Str/Stam champion and there's an Agi/Str item. Would they be able to buy it? Or, if items have 2 stats, can only heroes with those 2 base stats buy them? What if items had base stat requirements? Certain heroes would still be limited to the items they could buy due to their base stats, but it opens up more options for flexibility. Like, say you had Agility boots for tier 1 with a requirement of 3 agility to equip gave a pretty good movement speed boost, and that boost would go really well with, say, a bruiser hero. If that bruiser hero had at least 3 base agility, they could buy these boots. Or, have some items that have stat requirements that don't match all the stats they give. Like if there was a 2h weapon that gave strength and dexterity and a special effect but required 8 strength, it might go well with a bruiser or another strong hero. Another thing with this would be having increasing stat requirements per tier, so that some heroes might be able to buy this really cheap version of, say, an equivalent to Frozen Heart which only provided a little defense and a 5% attack speed slow, whereas another hero of that stat alignment could buy the fully upgraded, more powerful version. You could also give items that transmute a % of bonus stats into other stats or damage, probably on rings. This could also assist in building base stats for heroes.

    What were your plans for the types of bonuses for each slot of armor? Like, Gloves might affect offense, boots affect movement, Armor might affect resistance, rings modify something, etc. Or were you just going to throw around the unique effects willy nilly? Will each slot have different amount of price/stats or will that be based on tiers? Do you have to combine items to get higher tiers or just upgrade your initial items? Are there going to be inventory items such as elixirs, potions, wards, or scrolls that have different uses? Will there be a "secret shop" or some kind of out-of-base shop that has better items or lets you upgrade to high tier?

    I also noticed that the Strength/Willpower combination class is missing from the list on your site.
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    Flames of Terror

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Flames of Terror on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:05 am

    There is a lot of data that hasn't been posted on the main forums yet. We are writing them down on DOCs and revising them quite often. We should be adding them within the week though. As for your ideas for the items I will have to think about them. We don't tell people that they're ideas are not going to be used, because we don't know what is going to work. But I will have to talk them over with the rest of the group.
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    ShroudedSnake

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by ShroudedSnake on Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:15 pm

    Zarkof wrote:I also noticed that the Strength/Willpower combination class is missing from the list on your site.

    Probably something like an anti-caster. Kassadin comes into mind.
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    TheMadHatter

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by TheMadHatter on Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:40 pm

    This sounds like fun. If you guys need help with creating the heros and such Lets me know. I know someone who works on coding for games and i might be able to have him help you guys.
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    Flames of Terror

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Flames of Terror on Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:28 am

    It's always nice to have more people to work on a project. Just remember we aren't working on creating a working model right now. We are theorycrafting a combination of structures that could possibly create a well oiled game.
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    Nazrethim

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Nazrethim on Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:38 am

    This is very interesting. I've been following this topic with a lot of enthusiasm ^^
    I have a question!(and suggestion) How the "mages" level up? I mean, they get a general experience from playing and spent points in passives and spells of their choice? or they will get specific "experience" depending on how they play? i.e.: Lets say you have two categories for the passives and spells, one dedicated to the ways of war (melee and ranged improvements related to the physical combat) and another one dedicated to magic (both offensive and defensive). So playing warriors (both melee and ranged) grant combat exp while magic heroes grant magic exp.
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    Flames of Terror

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    Re: War of Ascendance

    Post by Flames of Terror on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:38 am

    The Mages (summoners) work very similar to League as they level up by playing matches. They will obtain both SP (skill experience) and XP (regular experience). However, unlike League, they won't level from 1 to 30, but instead by "Ranks" and "Circles".

    Ranks:

    Ranks are the intrim levels between "Circles". Ranks go by numbers from 1-14, and are used by the system to match up players for games. Players can be matched with others up to +/- 3 ranks, or easily put, players will pvp within 3 Ranks of themselves. This will limit unfair play, and is not the only system we have put forward to prevent unfair play.

    Circles:

    Circles are your major landmarks for advancement. Each Circle will grant you an additional space for Passives or Spells. Originally you start out with 4 spaces (these spaces are your active passives + spells, and the ones that are able to be researched). Circles are marked by colors; white, yellow, orange, red, purple, blue, and black. For people who cannot count that is 7. For a grand total of 98 "levels". You cannot be paired with a player below or above your Circle unless you are being/doing a Mentor.

    Mentor:

    Is a system where you pair up with a player of lower Circle (Min Circle for this is n/a), and you teach them how to play the game. This encourages healthy gameplay and promotes a community feel. Additionally Mentors will be reduced to the Rank/Circle of the pupil for all games in which they are present. (Note: this balance process also happens in custom games, where everyone is reduced to the lowest players Circle and Rank.) Mentors and their pupils gain a small boost to XP and SP for all games in which both are present.

    ----------------------------------

    Mage Research:

    Using SP you obtain from matches you can research any number of useful spells or passives that you have acquired. (Note: You will get a standard set with the game, and will have to play games to unlock more, or buy them with cash. Certain ones will require a Quest.) The Passives can be anything from, "Increases Physical Damage dealt by 1%", at level 1, to "Increases Physical Damage dealt by 10%" at max level. Of course there are also ones for magical classes, supports, tanks, junglers, assassins, etc. Some of them are very specific, and some of them are very broad. Choosing your Passives are very important to making each game productive.

    Spells on the other hand are useful additions to gameplay. From a last attempt escape, a slow, or even a minion kill spell (yes like smite). There are a couple variants of champion damaging spells, and some are stronger then others in different ways. EX: a spell that deals 500 damage over 5 seconds, or a spell that deals 100 damage and increases magic damage to the target by 5% for 3 seconds, or even a spell that deals 300 damage and negates dodge chance (yes there will be chance effects like dodge). While you can only ever have 2 Spells to use during a game, they fit multiple roles, and act to further your custom play style.

    =======================================

    @Zarkof:

    Heroes will be able to see any items that have their MAIN stat on them. A strength/agility hero can see items that are strength/intelligence, but not agility/wisdom. The first stat declared is the MAIN stat while the second is the MINOR stat. The MAIN stat to a hero is what increases their damage, while the MINOR stat simply increases the heroes parameters. (Note: Main stat will increase ability damage by a % per X. The X value is in debate.)

    Item's names will reflect their passives, unique passives will be only for aura items. A pair of boots called "Demon's Fire" will most likely have a passive that gives them a burning augment to their basic attacks, which may get stronger for each subsequent auto-attack. While a one-handed sword call "Whisper's Wind" will most likely grant a move speed bonus, and an active stealth effect. On that note all boots will give MS to some amount, weapons will give damage, armor defense, and trinkets (necklace/rings) will grant random bonuses.

    (Note: In addition to the RPG style equipment sheet for each hero. There will also be a 6 slot inventory for combining items, and an "Active-Aura" slot for supports.)

    EDIT:

    The Active-Aura slot will accommodation any item that hero (Tank and support) can use. This grants self only 50% of the normal stats, but grants an aura benefit (supports and tanks are able to see these auras).


    =============================

    Please note that we don't just disregard suggestions. We love to hear them and think about the viability of them. The reason why an experience system like what you suggested wouldn't be to viable. Is because it would confuse players who are new to the game. Additionally these Mages who are in the tournament have a high affinity for magic, and while they do take on the souls of fighter heroes and the like. They augment their skills to include magic in some way.

    Your's in Fellowship,

    Flames of Terror

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